Does Gordon Have an $11M Pistons Promise?

Leave it to Joe Dumars to try to clean up one of his messes by overpaying for a role player *cough*Nazr Mohammad*cough*. I like the idea of having Ben Gordon, but not for that price nor as a starter. He’s a 6th man, a cheap man’s iverson (less speed but much better shooting range) that provides a major spark off the bench and opens the lane for Rodney Stuckey.

I would place his value at around $8 million a year because he has shown that he has plenty of offensive talent, but is not a great defender due to lack of height (he’s reportedly 5′11″ without shoes).

However I do feel that this team does need much better outside shooting and Rip just does not seem to cut it in that respect. My god why did Dumars have to go and blindly hand out that lengthy contract to Rip; I wouldn’t be surprised if both sides are regretting it at this point. That contract should have been shredded after Chauncey was traded.

I would be intrigued by a possible T-Mac for Rip swap as has been rumored. Houston has plenty of outside shooting but does not have a consistent shooter (Yao does not count). Bringing in Rip would give them some more needed offense and Tracey would help ease the load off Rodney on top of freeing up the financial situation. You’ll never hear Dumars admit this but its clear that he screwed up by getting a player like iverson instead of either a young athletic big or at least a player who could contribute and then be gone in 2010.

I think the Pistons can sign who ever they want this off season as long as its on a 1 year deal, and to be frank it’ll also benefit the player because the financial situation looks to improve by the end of the deal (anyone following the stock market will know that a lot of shares have nearly doubled in value since January).

Lets face it, we need to capitalize off the 2010 free agency. Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh have the same agent; where one goes, the other follows. If the Pistons don’t resign T-mac (as expected) and keep all the cap space from last year, that’s a good $40 million.

And lets not forget about Tayshaun’s contract. It looks like The Turk will be resigned by Orlando at all costs, so he’s out of the question. That leaves Marvin Williams and Ariza. Between the two I would take Ariza because of how well he played in the playoffs and his amazing athleticism on top of defense. That’s a guy I could easily spending $8 million a year on. Now ship Tayshaun off to Toronto for Bosh, and you’ll have Bosh as a restricted free agent with plenty of cap space to get Wade. Granted that $8 million would leave the cap space at around $34 million, but I don’t think even Dwayne Wade will cost that much.

That’s the rant of the week, I felt it was necessary to come out big since I’ve been quiet as of late.

To recap for those who don’t feel like reading the entire thing (which you really should since rants are always fun):
No Ben Gordon
Get Ariza
Swap Tay + etc for Bosh
Swap Rip + etc for T-mac + possible draft pick
Hold the fort down until 2010 (which should be very doable with that team)
Sign Wade in 2010 since Wade and Bosh = pals

You think Ben Gordon is a ROLE player. What does 20 points a game say to you? By saying BG is a role player I’m assuming you think Rip is a role player too? If the Pistons landed Gordon he would be (at this point) the most talented player on the roster. Joe D simply can’t afford to pass on Gordon, why not sign gordon and then target Josh Smith and Chris Bosh. If we could unload Rip and Tay and bring in Bosh, Gordon, and Smith that would solve all of our problems.
1-Three point shooting (BG)
2-Attacking the rim (Smith)
3-Big men (Bosh)

and Ariza already said he wants to stay with LA so he’s pretty much out of the picture

Perhaps role player wasn’t the best term. Put it this way,he’s not a guy that can lead you to a championship. Its like how Charles Barkley said you just can’t win when Joe Johnson is your best player. Ben Gordon is a great individual player, but in terms of a championship roster, he would be a side player - not the leader. Besides Gordon sacrifices a lot of height on the defensive end (he’s 5′11″ without shoes), that’s common knowledge across the league.

As Smith, I’m not quite sold on him just yet. He needs to stop taking so many outside shots (at least Sheed could hit them) and do a better job rebounding for a guy with his build and athleticism before I see him winning a championship. Either way how do you afford both him and Bosh?

Speaking of which, another concern that has not been addressed even with Bosh is the low post. Bosh plays the high post because he doesn’t have the frame to go low. That’s one area that Boozer has him trumped (which is also why he gets more rebounds). It’ll be interesting to see if Kwame Brown can fit that role.

You can afford both Smith and Bosh when you’re sending away Rip and Tay’s salaries (also some smaller players to make the contracts match). I agree that BG’s not a guy that will lead you to a championship but he is an impact player that can change games, those are the kind of guys you want on your roster. And on the defensive end we have Stuckey, BG is a fair defender at the PG position. So for defensive assignments Stuck and BG could just switch gaurd spots.

And about Smith, how long has it been since the Pistons had a player that viciously attacked the rim? He would be a valuble asset on a championship team not to mention his great shot blocking ability.

Bosh does play the high post, but that isn’t a huge problem. He’s the leader and that this team needs, not to mention his scoring touch and rebounding abilities. He’s another guy that I don’t think Joe can pass on because a guy like him is only available once in a while. My only hesitation with Boozer is that he is unloyal and he would be bad for our team chemistry.

Perhaps, but you saw how well that worked out when Iverson and Stuckey switched defensive positions (yes I acknowledge Gordon is a better defender than AI).

But here’s where you misunderstood me. I said Gordon could be a great 6th man, thinking Vinnie Johnson, instant offense. That’s still an impact player, just within a smaller role (hence why I initially incorrectly him a role player). I simply prefer the idea of him coming off the bench rather than starting because of defensive liability and that he’s very streaky.

Regardless, unless if you plan of having Smith play small forward (which to be honest, I think he can do to a decent degree), the Pistons have a large hole at small forward and way undersized center. Should Smith excel at small forward (which once again I think that he is a natural 3 playing the 4, similar to Richard Lewis), that would be something I could live with. You’d have a lot of size to make up for Gordon’s height if your front line consisted of Smith, Bosh and Brown.

Yes, I planned on Smith playing SF, I thought he always played there but thats just where I assumed he would play. But here is where you are mistaken. Do you really think BG is going to sign a contract here to be the 6th man and risk having another A.I. episode. Streaky or not 20 PPG is a solid stat, and every player in the league is a defensive liability to some degree. What you got against Ben Gordon man?

Actually I do. Look at the history of his negotiations; Ben Gordon has repeatedly shown he’s after the money, so if Detroit offers him $5 million more than Chicago to come off the bench, then he’ll gladly come off the bench.

You’re forgetting that he has been awarded the 6th man of the year and this was truly his first year as a starter. All others years he spent a good amount (sometimes the majority of the year) coming off the bench.

He’s a closer, not necessarily a starter. I don’t know the exact numbers but he’s got to be top 5 in 4th quarter points. Great guy to have coming off the bench to finish games, not the guy to get consistency at the start.

I still think we need him as a starter, no more of this crap where stars come off the bench IT DOESN’T WORK

You need to chill; no need to get apprehensive when you run out of ideas.

I think history likes to disagree with you about stars off the bench. Unless if you don’t consider Manu Ginobili a star, then San Antonio has proved it 4 times in the last 10 years. Or how about Vinnie Johnson when he hit the game winning shot in the 1990 finals. Kevin McHale is seen as one of the greatest 6th men in history, as is Bill Walton. Robert Horry definitely went under the radar, but look who’s smiling with 7 rings at the end of the day?

Richard having a guy with Gordon’s talent coming off the bench is a good thing because it shows the depth of your team, that you’ve got that much talent that you can place a possible all star on the bench. Just think of how much of a difference it made having Rodney coming off the bench in the 2008 playoffs, no way the Pistons get to the conference finals without him - even if Chauncey didn’t get injured.

I know what you’re saying about skill off the bench but come on, that just doesn’t make sense. Why would we ever sign a player for 11 flippin million dollars a year just to bring him off the bench? Doesn’t that sound like an expensive backup to you? It’s not as simple as you make it sound, we can’t just be like hey - Ben you’re gonna come off the bench for us - and expect him to be like - aight sounds cool. Just because he did it in his earlier seasons doesn’t mean he’s going to do it again. There’s no chance in hell Gordon comes off the bench next season in a Detroit Pistons uniform

As for 4th quarter scoring Gordon was 17th in the league in the 08-09 Season with an avg. of 5.5 per. Although he did assist on 47% of Chicago’s 4th quarter points also

The scoring drop is likely due to having Rose handle the ball in the 4th quarter, but the assist percentage shows that he’s got his hand on at least half the plays. It would be interesting to see who is more important to their team in the 4th quarter: Gordon or Turkoglu?

As for the $11 million, look at my first post. I stated that $11 was too much, $8 million is a much better number with the economy in mind

I know I saw the first post but he’s not going to settle for 8 mil, thats what he rejected from the bulls

Richard why are you not in the guest host contest. You would have been perfect to go against Ali!

Richard is right Ben Gordon rejected 10 Million for 5 years from the Bulls.

He is definitely not taking 8 million from the Pistons.

He’s going to want his 11 million. Its just that simple.

The Question is does Ben Gordon deserve 11 million dollars a year for a long tern contract?

No, he doesn’t deserve 11 million!!!

Hope he won’t be a piston….

I don’t have the time to read all this thoroughly, but a few things I picked up on.

Ali, nobody plays in the NBA without shoes. That measurement of height is beyond useless.

As Richard said, Ariza is wanting to stick firm. I never imagined he’d leave considering he was just part of the championship team. Wishful thinking I suppose.

I think we’ve got enough depth at the two guard. I’m happy with Afflalo, he doesn’t make many bad plays, plays good defense and has space to grow.

Of course if we trade Rip, we’ll need legitimate scoring threat to replace him.

We really should be looking at forwards & centers. Besides the aforementioned Boozer/Okur, Bosh or Turkoglu, who else are we eyeing up?

@Hosts: Is there going to be a draft episode (in detail) at any point?

Breaking down prospects.

Oh, and anybody want to post a presumptuous (maybe hopeful) mock depth chart? :p

haha yea for some reason it’s always me and ali that get in these arguments

@Astrid How much are you willing to pay for it!

Its Marcus from Berlin!!!! Welcome back to the comment section!

Man dat dude Ali is crazy.

Anyway I’m I the only fan in the world that doesn’t wanna see RIP go?

@ Mike….

YUP!

Its for the greater good of the Pistons!

I agree with Mister Davis.

Rip works best within a half court offense and I think Pistons fans are ready for a change. With Stuckey as our focal point for the future, I think the tempo should be picked up some.

@John I’ll give you a tuna sammich. Meow.

gee thanks Mike great to know I’m crazy

I didn’t know that Gordon had denied a $10 mil offer this year, I thought that it was two years ago when the economy was good and he turned down those big contracts

@Ali now you he wont play for less than 11 million which is too much for the Pistons to pay him!

When does Kevin Martin become a free agent? Gordon is a great asset, but not a championship cornerstone (which you understand John unlike some other people here). IMO, this team needs a tall shooting guard (for defensive purposes) that’s on the rise if they plan to win a title.

Aside from Martin and Dwayne Wade, I don’t know of any other great up and coming shooting guards that would be willing to leave their team in free agency. No way Roy leaves Portland, too long to wait on Mayo and I don’t think Joe Johnson is a cornerstone.

As I said, Wade and Bosh have the same agent and its become a fairly wide spread rumor that they want to play together. Personally, I say getting Bosh, Smith and holding off until 2010 is the best move.

A bit more risky, but lets be honest, a team built around Gordon would be like the Suns all over again, high pace with little defense. Just look at the Boston series, tons of offense, little defense. And how do you prevent bosh from going to Miami? Stoudemire would be a good replacement, but he basically stated he refuses to play defense in a press conference about the coaching changes.

WE NEED JOSH SMITH!!!

Bosh says he has no friends and no plans to go to Miami.

Bosh is a Texas boy.

I wonder would he go play with an old Tim Duncan?