What’s Going on World?

John W. Davis here.  Denver Nuggets Head Coach George Karl has checked in with his first analysis of the Billups for Iverson trade.  He says Denver is better of because they have a pass first point guard.  I would have to agree with Coach Karl because Denver is 5-1 since Chauncey started running the point for his hometown team.

However, I think the Pistons didn’t get the short end of the stick.  Honestly, this is about as even as a trade in the NBA can get.  Both teams just needed a change and something different.

Via Detroit News:

—————————————————————————-

1. “There are less bad plays, more solid plays,” Karl said. “I think the wasteful, cheap possessions that we used to have — 10 to 15 a game — they don’t exist very much anymore.”

3. “I don’t think there’s any question coaching a team without a passing and point guard mentality is frustrating for a coach. Sometimes I saw something, but I couldn’t get it done on the court because I didn’t have a playmaker out there.”

4. “A.I., at times, had trouble trusting the guy he’s throwing it to,” Karl said.

—————————————————————————-

Again, I think the trade was beneficial for both teams.  Denver needed offensive structure and quiet leadership.  Detroit needed a culture shift.  The Pistons needed a new offensive stratagem because they way Pistons went about playing in the playoffs since 2005 was not cutting it.  When the Pistons get that defense consistently at the level it was at against the Lakers…. Watch Out!

WHAT DO YOU THINK GOT THE BETTER DEAL?

Peace,

John W. Davis

www.pistonscast.com

What’s Going on World?

John W. Davis here.  One Mr. Chauncey Billups a Denver, Colorado native has finally spoken up and out.  The FREEP got Chauncey to give us some insight into his seven major thoughts about the trade.

Shout out to Ryan for emailing the link to the story:

For a quick recap check out some of these excepts:

1.“It was the hardest two or three hours that I’ve had in a long, long time in my life,” Billups said. “We just couldn’t believe that it’s over. It’s over. That’s the thing that’s so tough about trades. No matter what happens, it’s over. So those two or three hours were crazy.”

2.“It was good,” Billups said in a wide-ranging interview Thursday, at the Nuggets’ team hotel in Cleveland. “It was deep. I will never forget my six years in Detroit, and I will never forget those three hours that I spent with my two brothers in that room.”

Career commitment?

3.“Those were all my intentions when I signed back with Detroit — not just the basketball thing, me retiring a Piston, but me really sinking my two feet into everything that Detroit is going through,” Billups said.

Piston for life? When Billups re-signed, he seemed like a likely candidate to have his No. 1 retired. Last week, after he was traded, Billups turned on the television. And there was Allen Iverson, wearing No. 1 for the Pistons.

“I will admit, that shocked me,” he said. “It’s kind of surreal when you first get traded. But when I saw that No. 1 on TV with a different name, that’s when I said, ‘It’s official.’ ”

Heart of the team

4. Chauncey Billups was not just an All-Star for the Pistons. He was their captain, their soul. While several of his teammates bristled at Flip Saunders’ coaching, Billups was the glue holding Saunders to the rest of the roster — without Billups, it seemed like the whole thing could have fallen apart.

Of course, he never said that then.

But he can say it now.

“Yeah, I did, I felt that way,” he said. “It could have really got out of hand, probably, had it not been for me trying to keep everybody together.”

There is a perception that the problem was between Rasheed Wallace and Saunders. That’s not really the case.

“’Sheed was just vocal and visual about his (frustration),” Billups said. “I can’t say it was all Rasheed or it was only Rasheed. But even with that, I just still feel like that should have never come into play. I feel like no matter what the coach is doing, how you feel or whatever, you can’t cheat your teammates and not give maximum effort because you’re mad at the coach.

“I think that cost us at least one championship.”

Really? Which one?

“At least one,” he said.

Billups also said “don’t get me wrong, I’m not blaming anybody.” He didn’t take sides and didn’t really defend Saunders. His point was that the Pistons let their differences with their coach get in the way of their ultimate goal.

“I don’t point fingers,” he said. “I just think problems, and maybe disbelief in Flip on a player or two’s behalf, cost us in some different series that I thought, had we been locked in, we could have won.”

Is it fair to say there was a lack of respect for Saunders?

“That probably is a fair term.”

When the Pistons fired Saunders and hired Michael Curry this year, Billups expected to have a smoother ride.

“I felt like now I could just play,” he said. “ ‘I don’t have to overexert myself in that area. We got somebody that can control and keep everybody right. I can just play.’ That was my mind-set.”

He laughed.

“I got two games of that.”

Haunting unknowns

5. Billups said he has no regrets. He did everything the best way he knew how at the time. But what-ifs … yeah, he has plenty of those.

What if he hadn’t injured his hamstring in last year’s playoffs?

“I felt like if it’s not for my injury, (even) with Flip, we win the championship last year,” he said. “I think we win it all and that No. 1 has still got BILLUPS on the back of it.”

6. What if Hamilton had known that Billups was going to be traded? The normally affable Hamilton was so upset by the trade that he didn’t talk to the media for several days. Would Rip have signed his contract extension without Chauncey on the roster? Did the Pistons wait until the contract was signed before making the deal?

“If Rip would have knew that this deal was going on, I just don’t know that he would have signed that extension,” Billups said. “It was kind of funny to me that they announced this trade the same day that he signed. I really don’t know. … It just seemed weird to me. He signed that extension three days before the trade. … I think it might have been a little different if all this was exposed early.”

7. While Billups was in that hotel room with Hamilton and Prince, laughing and crying, his phone rang. It was an old teammate.

Ben Wallace.

“We put him on speaker,” Billups said. “He was basically saying, ‘First me, now you.’ But I was like, ‘You left on your own, dog! You chose to get out of there. I didn’t.’ It was funny.”

———————————————————

Man, Chauncey had some real stuff to say.  He sounds like a man scorned who has a lot of truth to say.  Sheed and Flip that really hurts that neither of them were big enough to work through it for an NBA CHAMPIONSHIP!  Are you serious?  Nothing is ever deeper than that.  Sheed,  It’s not like Flip was capping on your mom or something.  GEEZ!  I’m spent.

Peace,

John W. Davis

www.pistonscast.com

YOUNG JEEZY SAYS: "IVERSON IS HARDER THAN A DINNER PLATE!"

What’s Going on World?

John W. Davis here.  The Pistons are on the road tonight against the Brooklyn-New Jersey Nets.  Tonight is definitely AI’s debut.  I’m looking forward to it.  Iverson completed his first PRAC-TICE on thursday.  The starting lineup is supposed to be Iverson, Rip, Tayshaun, Amir and Rasheed.  I’m not opposed to Iverson off the bench but I’m pretty sure that will never happen.

Coach Curry had this to say in the Detroit News about the Pistons starting lineup and where Stuckey stands on the starter’s learning curve.  “Stuckey is still learning,” Curry said. “He has a lot of talent, but he still has a ways to go. I’ve always said, if you don’t give young guys things and you make them earn it, they will keep it.  “If you give them something, you can take it away. He’s earning his keep, and he’s earning his time on the court.”

The Detroit Pistons are 4-0 and the Nets are coming in at 1-2.  Coach Mike Curry went deep into the rotation last game playing 11 B-ballers against the Raps, so look for at least 10 players to hit the floor (and score) in the IZOD Center in East Rutherford, New Jersey.  I expect a win against the Nets but you never know what will happen away from the Palace.

Check out this cool photo gallery of Iverson in his new Pistons duds.

*Also Rip misses Chauncey.

Peace,

John W. Davis

www.pistonscast.com

TRADING PLACES?

I WANT TO BE IN YOUR SHOES!

ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith is reporting that the Denver Nuggets are expected to trade Allen Iverson to the Detroit Pistons for Chauncey Billups, Antonio McDyess (and Cheick Samb *new information)

-STEPHEN A., WHY DO YOU SCREAM ALL THE TIME?!!!

Smith is citing Pistons team sources.

The report, which just aired on ‘SportsCenter’, said Iverson told Smith he wants to play for a contender. This is the beginning of Iverson’s third season as a Nugget.

-Denver, don’t you want Stephon Marbury instead?  I hear he is on the market…

This deal is not yet finalized.

Billups is a Denver native and played his college hoops at Colorado.

* The Boston Globe reports that Iverson is telling people in Denver he expects to be packing his bags soon.

-Boston, Are you scared of the current Pistons?

*The Rocky Mountain News says Iverson would be a perfect scoring complement to Tayshaun and Rasheed.

-Don’t they know we have Rip Hamilton?  The last time I checked he has lead the team in scoring what 4-5 years or so.

Honestly I don’t even know what to say?  What do you think?

-John W. Davis

www.pistonscast.com

AM I READY?

DET NEWS ARTICLE:

Billups said the team is emotionally and physically ready to start the season, but he cautioned fans not to expect a finished product right out of the gate.

“We aren’t going to be a polished, well-oiled machine in the first 15 to 20 games,” Billups said, “because we’ve got guys playing different roles and we have a new system.

“But we are going to be fine. We have a high basketball IQ here and we’re going to figure it out, and we’re going to be good. It’s just going to take a little time.”

——————————————-

What’s Going on World?

John W. Davis here.  I’m feeling good today. Why?  The Message Board Messiah aka Adam Lader and John W. Davis will be in the building for opening night. I know, jealous right?

Anyway, heed Chauncey’s words and don’t micro-judge every mistake for the first 20 games of the season.  Amir is new.  Tayshaun is still working on his consistency.  Even Chauncey has to work on getting his swagger back.  We all know Rasheed has to work on focusing on his offensive interior presence.  Even Rip has to consistently bring it on defense or he might find Arron Afflalo playing a bit more than he would like.

The beginning of this season is a learning experience for all the players and especially the coach.  Coach Curry has preached accountability but it’s going to take more than that.  It will take actually head coaching.  Although he was the captain of the Pistons when he retired, and an assistant coach last year, he is still learning and experience a lot of coaching trials and tribulations for the first time.

So after the first twenty games if the Pistons are 12-8, don’t worry because that’s a .600 % winning percentage and over the long haul that makes us a contender in the East.

Peace,

John W. Davis

www.pistonscast.com

Chauncey Billups sent a message that he is still the man in Detroit when the game is on the line, the Detroit News is reporting.

Billups scored 8 points in the final 2 1/2 minutes to trigger the Pistons’ 85-81 comeback exhibition victory over the Mavericks at The Palace on Thursday.

“Listen, when it gets to crunch time, I am going to have the ball, and I am going to be initiating sets,” Billups said Friday. “That’s just how it’s going to be, and it’s not just me saying that; it’s everybody saying it.”

Via Detroit News

Should Chauncey still be in charge in crunch time?

Should he take the last shot?

Hey Guys,

Been crazy busy down under for the past few.   I have a couple of points I wanted to make and would be happy to hear your thoughts.

Michael Curry - you mention he has the player’s respect now, but risks losing it should he start yelling at players and in particular, veterans.  I actually think this is not the case and that he has been given the authority to completely makeover the culture/tone of the team to whip them into the shape of a well drilled unit.  If he needs to give the players a verbal spray to keep them “accountable”, I think and hope he will do it.  I think this because Michael Curry is a proxy for Joe Dumars, even more so than Flip was.  He has Joe’s total backing and as Joe has said, there are no sacred cows on this team anymore. Under Flip, there probably were some sacred cows which may have hampered his ability to establish his authority over certain players.   I think the team had grown a bit soft and undisciplined under Flip (Larry Brown’s team wouldn’t have mailed in game 6) and Coaches are just as important for setting the tone of the team  as they are for drawing up X’s and O’s. This will be a major area he’ll address and nothing will send a stronger message than Michael giving a verbal spray to a veteran who isn’t doing what he should be.  Sheed, we’re looking at you if you think of venturing more than 5ft away from the low block.  

Chauncey Billups - he seems to be getting ripped a lot for his lack of heart, but perhaps, just perhaps, the leg injury was hampering him in the playoffs last season.  We don’t really know but I too think the hamstring was a bit of a soft excuse. Anyways, we have a new season now and what I did want to bring up was the Stuckey effect on Billups and how this may play out.  Surely Chauncey is a proud and competitive athlete and the sight of a sophomore player putting up numbers/minute that would be superior to his will get his attention and serve as motivation.  For this reason alone, I actually think we may see a more intense and hungry Billups, if only to hold onto his starting PG spot. Nobody likes to be shown up or demoted to a youngster and Chauncey still has many great years left in him.  He never really had this pressure with Lindsey Hunter who was always more of a defensive specialist so I am hoping they can form an incredibly formiddable PG rotation - perhaps the best in the league.

 
Antonio McD’s replacement - would love to give it to Amir but it has to be Kwame, purely on size and experience.  Plus, I love the prospect of Stuckey, Afflalo, Maxiell and Johnson with Sheed all on the floor together.  That prospect has me very excited.

 
Captainship.  I would like to turn this team completely over to Rip.  He still has the hunger in my opinion and is respected by the players.  I also think he has the moxie to call out players and make sure they do what they’re meant to be.  Like the Coach, the Captain should set the tone.  Chauncey may be a little soft on this and Sheed too erratic.  Rip is consistent and would bring a “you better work damn hard” attitude every night.  Who could not play hard for a guy who runs his heart out for the team each and every game.   That on its own should bring everyone’s work ethic up and I would love to see Rip being more vocal on the court as our leader.

 
Ok - rant over. 

 
Hope the comments provide some inspiration for more discussion on the show and a big shout out to all those Piston’s fans who have been sending me a shout outs from afar.  It’s great to props all the way out here in Sydney.

Peace,
Jules

www.pistonscast.com

SLAMonline Top 50: Chauncey Billups, no. 25

The definitive ranking of the best players in the NBA today…

AN OPEN LETTER TO MR. CHAUNCEY BILLUPS

Dear Chauncey,

We write this brief note to you in the direst of straits. We didn’t know where else to turn so we decided to use this platform to present our message. Please heed these words, we write to you today. Thank you for your consideration.

Chauncey, you were largely introduced to most of the basketball world when you were the third pick in the 1997 NBA Draft, but we already knew all about you. For the decade prior, your name was already legendary around the city of Denver, Colorado. Like other basketball prodigies before you, we heard the stories about Bob Knight and his contemporaries showing up at your junior high practices. We heard the stories of you killing much older kids at the Hiawatha Davis Rec Center up in Park Hill. We heard and believed that you were the next “big thing,” and we were so proud.

You are our state’s greatest prep player, taking home three consecutive Mr. Colorado crowns and two state titles while at George Washington High. Even after you lived up to all of the “mountainous” expectations, you bucked the popular thought when you graced our little collegiate hoops program up in Boulder with your presence for a couple years; even leading them to their first NCAA tourney bid in 28 years.

Hell, even our historically abysmal professional team was able to somehow procure your services for a year and a half, but like many decisions before, (and after) the Nuggets decided to ship you off in a multi-player deal to Orlando because you were injured and hadn’t quite figured out your place in the League. And now, after all of this time, you blossomed into one of the truly great leaders in the NBA.

You give consistency in a league of erratic behavior. You are the steadiest of steady. You have literally scored 16 points and dished out 7 assists every night since you arrived in Motown some six years ago. You have led the Pistons to an NBA title (where you were named the Finals MVP), five Eastern Conference Championship series, all while finding a home for you and your family in Detroit.

But Mr. Big Shot, this is your home and we need a point guard here, badly. It appears our current diminutive guard might be available for a trade and the rumor we hear is that the Pistons are interested. Talk to Joe D. and get back to us.

Come back, we miss you.

With Love,

The State of Colorado

Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

___________________________________________________________________________

What’s Going On World?

John W. Davis here.  So that’s it.  Unless Rodney Stuckey is Top 20?  Pretty Pretty please Mr. Ryne Nelson and TadOne???  Our Big 4 were ranked:  Tayshaun No. 45, Rip No. 40, Rasheed No. 34, and Chauncey No. 25.

Do you think our players were ranked too low?

Peace,John W. Davis

www.pistonscast.com

Dice in A Pistons Prayer- Billups Style

What’s Going on World?

John W. Davis here. We received an email from our boy Mike from Ypsilanti. Check out the email.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8XkTy4plGU

THE CHAUNCEY WE MISS!!!

-Mike from Ypsi

Mike said it all in that email and didn’t have to say more than four words.  COME BACK CHAUNCEY. Im calling it now.  Its the Comeback Chauncey Year 2008-2009.

Peace,

John W. Davis

www.pistonscast.com

Which one was better?

As I have noted in the past, I was born in Detroit and grew up a Pistons fan. And since sports allegiance doesn’t (or at least shouldn’t) change as you age, I remain a Pistons fan.

My memory of the Pistons extends all the way back to the days of Bob Lanier (I can still remember when he was traded to the Milwaukee Bucks). But I truly began to follow the Pistons when Isiah Thomas was drafted (in 1981 when I was eleven). The story I believed growing up was that Isiah put the Pistons on the map, and it was Isiah who led the Detroit to the team’s first two championships.

As I noted last summer, the story I grew up believing is not told by Wins Produced (see Looking Back at the Bad Boys). Wins Produced indicates that The Bad Boys were led by Dennis Rodman and Bill Laimbeer (not Isiah Thomas).

After Rodman and Laimbeer moved on, the Pistons became quite a bit worse. The Grant Hill era saw some success, but it wasn’t until another productive big man - Ben Wallace - came on the scene that the Pistons once again contended for the title.

Which backcourt dynamic duo was greater?

Discussing Chauncey and Isiah on Pistonscast

Unlike what we saw with Rodman and Laimbeer, though, when Big Ben left the Pistons didn’t fall apart. Since Wallace departed in 2006 the Pistons have had two +50 win seasons. And the leading producer of wins on each team has been Chauncey Billups.

Table One: The Detroit Pistons in 2006-07 and 2005-06

Table Two: The Detroit Pistons in 2007-08

All of this serves as a background to a recent conversation I had with John W. Davis and Deven Khrucell. John and Deven are the hosts of Pistonscast, “the number one podcast for die-hard Pistons fans.” As I remember, last spring I was a guest on the program and the subject of Allen Iverson came up. As I often note, “the Answer” is not quite as productive as many believe. And I noted at the time, I think Isiah was a more productive player than Iverson.

Such a statement may make Iverson fans unhappy, but is not exactly disputed by “die-hard Pistons fans.” But as I often do, I could not leave well enough alone. I also indicated last spring that Chauncey Billups - the current point guard in Detroit - is more productive than the one considered the greatest player in team history.

When I noted that Billups offers more today than Isiah did in the 1980s, Deven expressed some unhappiness. As a result, I was asked to return to the show to debate Deven on the relative merits of Chauncey and Isiah.

This debate is now posted at Pistonscast. The specific podcasts you need to hear - if you are interested in this discussion - are Episodes 62 and 63. Episode 62 is the first half of our discussion. We begin on the topic of Kwame Brown, but after awhile move into the discussion of Billups and Thomas. This debate is then continued in episode 63.

Essentially, Deven’s perspective is that the numbers are not enough to tell us that Chauncey is worth more than Isiah. Of course, I disagree. The numbers in basketball do explain wins. And those numbers go back to the individuals. Furthermore, it’s not clear to me how we could ever objectively test the propositions put forward by the non-numbers crowd. At least, I can’t see how we can test such propositions without numbers.

If Iverson was the Answer, Was Isiah the Question?

More on Billups, Isiah, and Iverson

For those who wish to see more numbers on this subject, here is a comparison of the career numbers of Billups, Thomas, and Iverson.

Table Three: Comparing Chauncey Billups, Isiah Thomas, and Allen Iverson

As Table Three indicates, the key stats are shooting efficiency and turnovers. Unlike Isiah and Iverson - who are both below average with respect to shots from the field and turnovers - Billups excels with respect to each of these stats. Consequently, Billups has a bigger impact on team wins.

If we turn to Wins Produced, we see the following career marks [in Wins Produced and Wins Produced per 48 minutes]:

Chauncey Billups: 90.9 Wins Produced, 0.181 WP48

Isiah Thomas: 97.4 Wins Produced, 0.132 WP48

Allen Iverson: 64.8 Wins Produced, 0.090 WP48

And if we look at each player’s career best marks [in WP48], again we see Billups coming out on top:

Chauncey Billups: 16.0 Wins Produced, 0.304 WP48 [2007-08]

Isiah Thomas: 18.6 Wins Produced, 0.289 WP48 [1984-85]

Allen Iverson: 10.0 Wins Produced, 0.152 WP48 [2004-05]

So those are the numbers. My sense is that Deven will not be convinced. And hopefully as you listen, you will hear that it’s okay if we don’t all agree. The conversation, by itself, is still quite fun (and hopefully interesting).

One More Interview

Last Thursday I was also a guest on the Jack Warkenthein’s Show - Where Wall Street Meets Main Street - on the Biz Radio Network. If you turn to the Podcasts for Jack’s show you can listen to my two segments on August 21 (part two and three). One should keep in mind, though, that this interview was done at 7:20am Central Time (the show is broadcast in Texas). This is 6:20am at my home in Utah. You are listening to me speak just minutes after I woke up that morning. So I don’t guarantee that I am entirely coherent (which probably makes the whole conversation even more interesting).

Still, I do think I offered some reasonable comments on Olympic basketball, the Rockets acquisition of Ron Artest, and the Mavericks acquisition of Jason Kidd. I think I also said something about why high oil prices could be good news. Again, the whole conversation was pretty early in the morning.

- DJ

www.dberri.wordpress.com

The WoW Journal Comments Policy

Our research on the NBA was summarized HERE.

The Technical Notes at wagesofwins.com provides substantially more information on the published research behind Wins Produced and Win Score

Wins Produced, Win Score, and PAWSmin are also discussed in the following posts:

Simple Models of Player Performance

Wins Produced vs. Win Score

What Wins Produced Says and What It Does Not Say

Introducing PAWSmin — and a Defense of Box Score Statistics

Finally, A Guide to Evaluating Models contains useful hints on how to interpret and evaluate statistical models.